Quebec
I live in the Quebec Community (pronounced: Kwee-Beck)of Transylvania County NC. It's a suburb of Rosman. It's centered around a curvy section of Hwy 64 and people here can count the places where someone died on it. Quebec is propped up against the Eastern Continental divide and some low but twisting mountains that guide various little creeks into the West Fork of the French Broad. Theres no glory here. A few convenience stores, and sprinkle of other services are all other than peoples lives. It's not simple nor is it complicated. It's complex in places...Places not being a physical location, but in it's cultural fabric as is so in all of Appalachia.
Quebec is one of those places that makes up the land beyond the Forks of the River, a common reference to anything west of Rosman. Places with foreign names, like Quebec, Gloucester (pronounced; Glaw-Stir) and over on the Tuckaseegee in Jackson County, Canada. How these places, all on the Southern exposure of the Balsam Range got such names I don't know. I always imagined it had to do with the Gloucester Lumber Company, that came to that name in a way that I don't know either. Though there is an answer out there, as I was growing up and being told of the way things once were...A key to the way they are now...That was something that never got said. Gloucester and Canada, but not so much Quebec make up broad areas with individual communities in them, hence a complexity. A reference to any could be broad, meaning any of the places that lay within it's boundaries.
Rosman served as a gateway to what lay beyond the Forks of the River, to include those parts that sat on the Atlantic side of the Devide, like Toxaway, Sapphire and Whitewater. Rosman was once the boom town of Transylvania fed by Lumber. Now it's an oddity of some houses, trailers, a couple of mom and pop restaurants, and convenience stores. It does possess more convenience with an auto parts, and beyond it nearly in Cherryfield a neatly stocked hardware/feed n seed store. Stores here can have a separate name, but it's known by the last name of whoever owns or once owned it no matter what. "Our Country Store" is owned by the Crow family and sometimes by a few called "Crow Mart", the BP Station in Quebec will forever be referred to as "Thorpe's", though opwned by someone else now. You see? It gets a little complex...And that goes for all of rural Transylvania. Rural Transylvania on the side of a mountain or sitting on the side of street corner in Brevard, a place that doesn't seem reflect rural Transylvania any more...At least not on the surface.
We Transylvanians can be an odd bunch, everything is changing at a whirlwind around us, and we hold to little things...And those little things matter. We like to think of it as simple, fearing the complicated things around us now, but it never was simple nad never will it be. It's complex. It's not wrong, it's not foolish. It's unique...And it's something to be proud of. That's something that I beleive goes for everyone around us too.
It's complex, but it's just that simple
The Appalachianist
Quebec is one of those places that makes up the land beyond the Forks of the River, a common reference to anything west of Rosman. Places with foreign names, like Quebec, Gloucester (pronounced; Glaw-Stir) and over on the Tuckaseegee in Jackson County, Canada. How these places, all on the Southern exposure of the Balsam Range got such names I don't know. I always imagined it had to do with the Gloucester Lumber Company, that came to that name in a way that I don't know either. Though there is an answer out there, as I was growing up and being told of the way things once were...A key to the way they are now...That was something that never got said. Gloucester and Canada, but not so much Quebec make up broad areas with individual communities in them, hence a complexity. A reference to any could be broad, meaning any of the places that lay within it's boundaries.
Rosman served as a gateway to what lay beyond the Forks of the River, to include those parts that sat on the Atlantic side of the Devide, like Toxaway, Sapphire and Whitewater. Rosman was once the boom town of Transylvania fed by Lumber. Now it's an oddity of some houses, trailers, a couple of mom and pop restaurants, and convenience stores. It does possess more convenience with an auto parts, and beyond it nearly in Cherryfield a neatly stocked hardware/feed n seed store. Stores here can have a separate name, but it's known by the last name of whoever owns or once owned it no matter what. "Our Country Store" is owned by the Crow family and sometimes by a few called "Crow Mart", the BP Station in Quebec will forever be referred to as "Thorpe's", though opwned by someone else now. You see? It gets a little complex...And that goes for all of rural Transylvania. Rural Transylvania on the side of a mountain or sitting on the side of street corner in Brevard, a place that doesn't seem reflect rural Transylvania any more...At least not on the surface.
We Transylvanians can be an odd bunch, everything is changing at a whirlwind around us, and we hold to little things...And those little things matter. We like to think of it as simple, fearing the complicated things around us now, but it never was simple nad never will it be. It's complex. It's not wrong, it's not foolish. It's unique...And it's something to be proud of. That's something that I beleive goes for everyone around us too.
It's complex, but it's just that simple
The Appalachianist
posted by Hill Billy Rave | Sunday, August 03, 2008
38 Comments:
This post got me digging out my old copy of "The North Carolina Gazetteer." It was first published in the early 50s by William Powell and has been republished several times, my edition is the 68 one. I found something on all those communities except Canadian Top in Haywood County.
Most of the communties there is little about the origin of the names, but here are some interesting tidbits:
the little town of Balsam (on Balsam Ridge) has the highest standard gauge railroad east of the Rockies at 3315'
Rosman was first named Toxaway when Inc. in 1901, changed to Eastatoe in 1903, then in 1905 to Rosman by industrialist J. S. Silverstern, who compounded the word from two associates, Rosenthal and Ormansky!
The Tuckasegee River named for a Cherokee Indian Town, "Tsiksitsi," meaning "crawling terrapin"
That's your geography lesson for today! :)
I should say, I didn't find Canada in the Gazetter, but I did find Canadian Top
Sage, that is true. That was J.S Silverstein though. You may remember me mentioning the Silverstein Community, an in holding of Gloucester. It was Silverstein that owned the Gloucester Lumber Company.
Eastatoe was a Cherokee town in what is now SC, somewhere down on the lower end of Laurel Creek. The Eastatoe Trail ran across Rosman then crossed the Blue Ridge and down through "Old Toxaway". Toxaway is another Cherokee town that was in SC, Daksiwi...Commonly confused with their word for a Cardinal, Red Bird. The upper Toxaway River is the Lake Toxaway Community, that has a Zip Code covering Quebec and Silverstein.
I bleieve Balsam's rail road is gone now, all are except the Smokey Mountain Rail Road over at Bryson City. Speaking of standard gauge, look up the Saluda Grade. I don't know anything of Canadian Top. Canada holds Rock Bridge, Wolf Mountain (My Praternial Grandfather was born on Wolf Mountain)and Pinhook.
Impressive commenting, Sage. I'd like to see the Gazetteer.
On a previous post, I looked up a referance to the French and Indian War. Information I found spoke to movement of people . . . Indian and white back and forth across the mountains . . . not isolated in the way people sometimes imagine but "complex" with tribe fighting tribe and tribe aligned with tribe and white men and French influence hence the naming of French Broad River not to be confused with the (English) Broad River rising to the north which eventually makes it way here to Columbia, South Carolina. One other point that comes from the experience of living in a rural setting . . . the land where large families lived in a time when travel was constrained (my step-father knew of travel by wagon that would take nearly all day to go 12 miles to another town) a hundred acres of well-watered farm land would be divided into named places of creeks and hills and flatland places where people lived or a family had had an experience . . . good or bad. The land seemed to take on names . . . it was not driven past at speed and ignored. It was part of the lives of people who lived there. Goat Island in the Catawba River was knowed for the goat's put there. It became Nub Island when Nub Gardner wintered over in the thirties. Nub himself was a charater, a one-armed man, who once in court told a lawyer as to how he had lost his arm, "I wore it off pickin' a banjo." I suspect such behavior is at work in the naming of many places. Write down their names and keep them close. They are important to a people caught in change. Bill
"I wore it off pickin' a banjo."
That sounds like something my Great Gandaddy would have said. He picked banjo, but he had both arms.
That's interesting about Goat Island, Bill. That's a good way to keep goats.
I know how allot of places got their names. But Quebec, Canada and Gloucester, I don't know. I know of a lady that may be able to tell me. She's a Forks of the River Icon. But, she's hard to find these days. I saw my Ex the other day and she told me I ought to go see her, that she hadn't been well. But then, she may not know either.
If you don't go see her, you won't know. Ain't I a smart*** as if you didn't know that . . . these folk had an oral tradition that many rural societies have . . . there was a woman at my ex's church who was the memory of perhaps more than a century . . . she is gone and so is her knowledge. . . I ain't got no room to talk . . . but people forget . . . just because you do not have a formal education . . . it don't make you dumb . . . I know . . it doesn't make you dumb. Go see her and write it . . . that was a good post about your community . . . remember, there are things you know about better than anybody, keep writting. Bill
Big time correction, it was my Maternal Grandfather that was born on Wolf Mountain. My Paternal was, I beleive, born on See Off Mountain. I may be wrong on that count, there is a family reunion this weekend, a great time to find out. How and why I confused the two, I just don't know. And it popped into my head that I had, while driving up Quebec Mountain...
Transylvania County is a real place?! Pity I didn't know it existed when I visited NC.
Good blog!
Stephanie, if you ain't seen Transylvania County you ain't seen the headwaters of the French Broad...Seriously, NC is a varied state. Where ever you went, I hope they treated you like family.
And thanks for the compliment. Always nice to see a Drive By Blogger.
I did have a great time in NC. I was only there for a long weekend a couple of years ago, and visited friends at Cherry something Marine base. It's near the Outer Banks. I went to see the USS North Carolina, and drove around a lot.
People were very nice, and I loved the scenery, as it reminded me of Northern Ireland where I grew up.
Stephanie, that would be Cherry Point, it's a far cry different than Transylvania. This is the west end of the state and the Mountains.
Northern Ireland? I passed through Shannon a couple of times, twice to be exact. Flying over Ireland was a real pretty site. I was surprized at the timber and logging operations on the hill tops. It's said allot of our ancestors settled here because it reminded them of Scotland or whereever they had come from.
Thanks for the reply! What you said was very interesting to me on a couple of levels. You refreshed my memory - I stayed in a hotel in New Bern NC, which was very interesting as it was the colonial capital of NC.
I'm interested in your end of the state for a different reason. About 8 years ago I read a book by Bill Bryson called 'A walk in the woods'. He's an American journalist and writer who lived in England for about 20 years. He finally moved back to the US with his family, and his book is about him and a boyhood friend walking the Appalachian trail. He is deathly afraid of bears, so it's a funny book.
I was still living in the UK when I read it, and have promised myself I'm going to walk it someday - well maybe not it all, but some of it.
On another note, I'm glad to hear you passed through Shannon. A geologist told me once that the reason NC and Ireland and Scotland all look the same is because they were joined up before the continents separated. To the best of my knowledge, a lot of people from Northern Ireland did emigrate to North Carolina - mainly fishermen and miners. Americans like to call them Scots-Irish, as it's more PC than calling them Ulster people of Scottish descent. My Grand dad was one, so I'm not being snarky. :op
Finally, I respect your Libertarian ideals, but I feel it may be a problem if Libertarians get elected all over, because people might decide they like paved roads and street lighting. Only joking!! lol
I really enjoyed North Carolina, as the main problem I find living in Texas is that I grew up by the sea and I'm at least 5 hours from the ocean here.
Stephanie
Oh, I forgot to say: I would imagine Gloucester is named after Gloucester, England. It's the county seat of Gloucestershire, which is a very pretty county in Southwestern England, about 200 miles from London.
I'm pretty sure this is where the name comes from - the pronunciation is the same - Glah-ster
http://www.gloucester.gov.uk/
Have a great evening!
Stephanie, I know that may have something to do with it...The Gloucester Fisherman and all...Gloucester Virginia...But there is not allot of English heritage here. We're those Sotch/Irish people you were talking about with a few other old world folks thrown in, Germans and Romanians.
I take it snarky is a British word for funny?
Snarky = sarcastic, impertinent, or irreverent in tone or manner.
:oD
I was thinking about what you said about Gloucester. I was wondering if the name came from one of the very early colonies so I did a bit of surfing on the interwebs today, and came up with this from Answers.com:
Southern Colonies
Charles II further expanded the empire in 1663, when he granted a charter to eight proprietors for the territory that would comprise North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. Settlement in North Carolina was sparse throughout the seventeenth century, with only about 5,000 settlers by 1700, its growth and development slowed because it did not have a good harbor. North Carolina was settled mostly by freed indentured servants and poor whites who lived on small subsistence farms. The fur trade and the production of naval stores bolstered the economy. Originally part of South Carolina, it became a separate colony in 1712.
http://www.answers.com/topic/colonial-settlements
Stephanie, first, there is allot of complex...I should have named the post Complex...History involved. In Colonial times the King forbid Settelers from setteling on the west side of the Blue Ridge in a treaty with the Cherokee. Of course being the Ulster types, they began to blow him off. This land was not officially occupied until after the Revelution. Most of us decendants of the Pioneer Families, which I am, came here for land grants for service during said war. The Cherokee were forced to give up the lands from the Blue Ridge to the Balsam Mountans, in other word the French Broad River Valley, and of course allot of other places. This was "fringe territory", not having any Cherokee settlements at the time. So only a few Indian names exsist on the French Broad. After the Revelution several states scuffled and argued over this slice of land. It had a chance of becoming a state of it's own, Franklin. But, it was never Colonial Land, that ended with the Broad (English Broad that Bill speaks of, also the ancient eastern border of the Cherokee).
Even though were well in the South, being in these woods is allot like being in the Northern Woods. A more deverse forest though.
The last part is it may have been related to some Northern places, that's what I meant.
Thank you for the extra information. Cherokee history seems very intertwined with the post colonial history of the state, so I need to learn more about that.
BTW, I turned off work verification on my blog as it seems to be a pain.
:o/
"Snarky", Stephanie? That's a new one. I've always used "Sarky". Must be a variation. Gloucester will inded be named after the English one. Pronounced as you say either "Glaaster" by someone with a "Glasstershire" accent (lovely one, it is, too) or in standard English "Gloster".
Its often said that the "Southern" US accent is based on the old English one because of all those settlers. I think, though, App, that its wrong just to talk about one "Southern" accent? There are quite a few variations, aren't there? And its hard to link them up with any English dialects, except maybe a general West Country one.
John,
I've got nothing to back this up, but I always thought the word 'snarky' had something to do with 'The Hunting of the Snark'.
Teenagers in the US and UK use the phrase a lot, as there is a popular TV related website called TWOP (Television Without Pity) whose motto is 'save the snark, spoil the networks'.
I'm beginning to sound like that old High Court judge,
"Who are the Beatles?"
"A popular musical group, M'Lud"
As for the pronunciation of 'Gloucester', I put it in as an American would say it - but you're right - a resident of Gloucester would say it the same as an American would. Never thought of that!
Hah.
I've just had a memory jogged by something John said about Colonial Era dialects in the US.
As you already know, I was born and raised in Northern Ireland.
In October 2001, I flew from Cornwall to Ft Irwin,CA to stay with some friends who lived there.
Anyway, one of these guys is from St something island, in Georgia, and the couple I was friends with were both native Californians.
Anyway, I was making dinner one night, and without thinking, I said to the Georgia guy,
" Will you hand me that gully".
Gully is a Northern Ireland dialect word for a big knife - like a butcher's knife.
He picked it up and handed to me, and I wondered out loud how he knew what I meant.
He said, "Oh, we use the word in GA too".
John and Stephanie, yes, some Old English lives here. Witht he influx of non natives to the area, it's threatened. They often try to correct us.
Now, two of the often seen charectors on here, Sage and Ed's roots are in Eastern North Carolina. They've noted the use of some Old English too, like using double negatives. On one place on the Outer Banks the accent sounds nearly like a Scottish Brouge.
Now for Gully, the boy must have been from St Simons, but here I've heard it used as a term of cutting, "gullied".
Two test for both of you...If you will?
How would you pronounce the name Cashiers?
Also what does "gaum" reffer to?
I appreciate this, and you may or may not prove my point, that I keep hidden for the sake of not tainting the results.
You'll act like you want to hang around. Well, go ahead, feel free to dance around the campfire.
Thanks App.. Now I'd say "casheer". But that's a North of England accent, and might not be the same elsewhere in the UK.
I hadn't a clue on "gaum" and had to look up its meaning....
Stephanie, you are of course correect re "snarky". Just doesn't seem to have reached my neck of the Welsh woods yet. Or at any rate this 'burlog hun' hadn't heard of it...
I just got in, and am enjoying reading the comments.
Well as for pronouncing Cashiers
If it was a cashier in a shop I'd say cash -eeer.
If it was someone's name I would say Cash - ee -ay.
Bear in mind I still have s Northern Irish accent mixed up with some Southern English.
Gaumy to me means greasy or dirty or sooty. So gaum must mean grease.
Thanks you'll.
Cashiers is a town in southern Jackson County. We pronounce it "Cash-Ers".
Both of you suprised me on "gaum". We use ut here to describe a greasy mess. Almost any mess. Messing and gauming for over eating. I've heard two stories to it's origin.
1. It has Turkish roots, which attirbuts it to an ethic group of Southern Appalachia, the Mulungeons.
2. Websters Dictionary says it is Old English.
So, I conclude that we are just plain odd about saying Cashiers, and gaum is apparently not Welsh.
Hey, you'll, I appreciate it! Thanks for playing.
Okay, App.... you are officially freaking me out now.
My late granny had an expression that I never understood - The cat's mulungeons'. My granny was born in Naas, County Kildare, Republic of Ireland. She was of Irish Norman French stock.(dating back to the Norman Conquest).
My grandfather (her husband) was born in India, as my great-grandfather was the Regimental Sgt Major of Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers. My great-grandmother was a Mughal lady from what is now present day Pakistan.
from A HISTORY OF TENNESSEE and TENNESSEANS
THE MELUNGEONS OF EAST TENNESSEE
Will T. Hale & Dixon L. Merritt 1913
The word used to be uttered by parents and nurses as a bugbear to frighten children into obedience: thus, “if you are not good, the Melungeons will get you.” Notwithstanding our acquaintance with the word, few really know what it means.
Col. W. A. Henderson, for some time president of the Tennessee Historical society and at present one of the most prominent members of the Tennessee bar, furnished the writer the following information in 1912:
“The name, Melungeon, is of obscure origin; probably it is from the French melange, a mixture. The Melungeons are a peculiar people living in the mountains of East Tennessee, western North Carolina, southwest Virginia and eastern Kentucky, and are of queer appearance and uncertain origin. They have swarthy complexion, straight black hair, black or gray eyes–Indian’s eyes are always black—and are not tall but heavy-set. * * * * They call themselves Portuguese (which they pronounce “Porter-ghee’) and were found in the regions mentioned by our first pioneers of civilization there. As a body, they were as concrete as the Jews, and their descendants are still to be found.
“The Melungeons were never adherents to the Indian religion and rites, but adhered to the Christian religion. The cross was ever held by them as a sacred symbol. In religious belief they are chiefly Baptist. It is a fact that they took no part in the Indian wars, either against the whites or the Indians.
Sweet dreams.
Reminds me of the legend of the "Welsh Indians". At least I'd say it was only a legend. Prince Madoc of Gwynedd (of whom there's no historical record) supposedly sailed from quite near to where I live in 1170, and landed in Florida, supposedly setting up a Welsh colony.
As you probably all know, there were persistant tales in the 18th and early 19th centuries of an Indian tribe, white skinned, building fortifications of Welsh type and using Welsh-type coracle boats, and supposedly understanding Welsh.Their location tends to be a bit vague; Kentucky, Tennessee and Missouri wre all mentioned, and they were apparently identified with the Mandan tribe.
Don't go for it myself.Whilst , considering the Vikings got at least as far as Greenland, its possible that a Welsh ship might somehow have reached America, I can't see a Welsh colony being set up. I suppose, though, its possible the occasional European sailor could have fetched up in America, and perhaps left some trace of European language or customs. But surely they would have bee so few that they would have been absorbed into the dominat native racial genes and culture pretty quickly?
John,
That's an interesting comment. Just recently some Harvard scientists have been putting the finishing touches to a genetic map of the world.
You're right, there is no genetic sign of pre-Columbian European genes in Native Americans. It's hard to give a hard and fast answer on genetics though.
St Columba was also meant to have travelled to America from Ireland with a group of his early Celtic Christian followers.
Coracles were also used a lot in Ireland, and still are to this day in Connemara and most of the Atlantic coast, Any genetic footprint from them should have been easy to spot as they were all male. Then again they were ascetics so sex might have been out of the question! lol
I found the Irish component of the genetic global map really interesting. This study followed the male hagiotype throughout the world.
Apparently Irish men and Spanish men are something like 98.5% genetically identical, which gives a lot of backing to the theory that Ireland was populated by human movement from the Iberian Peninsula after the Ice Age. Of course us Celts also have a sizeable genetic component from Persia aka modern day Iran.
Didn't the Irish St Brendan supposedly sail to America as well?
I'm not sure about the celibate thing, though. I'm never sure exactly which church these early saints belonged to. The priests of the Celtic Church wre allowed to marry. The others, not Church of England, obviously, but whatever they were called, weren't.
Mind you, having survived an Atlantic crossing, with prospect of returning home pretty remote, I doubt the celibacy rule would have lasted long....
John, I stand corrected. I should have said St Brendan.
I think the Columba/Columbus thing got me confused. :o)
I agree that the ascetic ideal probably fell by the wayside pretty quickly. lol
Stephanie, I could go on about this genetic stuff for hours. And probably will. So rather than clog up App's page with it, I've switched the subject to mine :)
Stephanie, John, we could go for a while about this. So, I'll be quick, because nothing personal, I've got thigs to tend to.
I've got a friend of Mulgeon decent he wuld find your part very interesting, Stephanie.
The Mulungeons were sivivors of a Portugeese colony on the SC coast. There were Turks and others wih them.
We've talked about them a couple of times.
John, the Mandans were known to have light skinned features. They all died due to small pox.
I know the feeling, App. I've been running around like a chicken with its head cut off today. My bank in England stops my ATM card working at random intervals. I think they might be trying to kill me. I dread to think what my blood pressure is. :o)
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
[url=http://vioperdosas.net/][img]http://vioperdosas.net/img-add/euro2.jpg[/img][/url]
[b]oem software review, [url=http://vioperdosas.net/]city software store[/url]
[url=http://vioperdosas.net/]office software to buy[/url] kaspersky internet security 2009 wrong application na 10 Advanced Mac FileMaker
office trial software [url=http://vioperdosas.net/]office 2003 cd key[/url] store software reviews
[url=http://vioperdosas.net/]adobe lighthouse software[/url] adobe photoshop cs3 free trial
[url=http://sapresodas.net/]software for purchase in[/url] cheap graphic software
educational software reviews [url=http://vioperdosas.net/]nero 9 forum[/url][/b]
This comment has been removed by the author.
Thanks for sharing an informative blog post....
Book online bus ticket from Redbus
Post a Comment
<< Home